Presenter: Lindsay Williams Guest(s): Brian Kirchmann

Lindsay Williams gets Brian Kirchmann from the South African Property Owners Association (SAPOA) on the line to discuss the problem at the Johannesburg Town Planning Department

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: If I look at the towns in South Africa - particularly Johannesburg - one wonders if there ever has been a town planner! Apparently it is a serious problem - developers say they have been told more than 50% of the Johannesburg town planners resigned en masse in December. Is it true - have we lost 50% in the last couple of months?

BRIAN KIRCHMANN: It’s difficult to say exactly what percentage was lost, but we have lost an awful lot. Town planning is in disarray, and we really are struggling. We are not just complaining, we are saying: "Can we help you with some solutions? Can we offer you town planners from our membership? Let’s work at it together, and find some solution!" We tried to have meetings with the council, and we don’t seem to be getting anywhere fast - we have meetings made, and then cancelled. I feel for them, because I think they are battling with resources, or lack thereof, and also lack of skills.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: It seems ironic that at a time in South Africa’s economic history - where the property cycle is at it’s peak - we should be experiencing this sort of shortage! Is it a case of, as you just mentioned - a skills shortage, there literally aren’t enough - or are they resigning because of bad working conditions, bad pay? What is the situation?

BRIAN KIRCHMANN: Yes, I think it is a mixture. I get the feeling that the folk in the public sector are probably moving into the private sector - because they believe there are better opportunities there. They were short of good skills, I think. They had some - but they are now left with precious little in the department, I think.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Can you explain in layman terms where the town planner fits into the whole commercial property cycle? What point does he or she come in? How important is a town planner, in order to get a development up and running?

BRIAN KIRCHMANN: It is enormously important - not only are they there to pass the plans so that developers can go ahead - if you have a good town planning department, you can actually control development in each node. I do believe that they’ve let some of the nodes get out of hand - you know the situation in Sandton, where none of the infrastructure can actually handle the development that has actually taken place there. You have heard the stories about the sewerage, traffic is a problem, electricity and water is a problem. The town planning department is the only organisation that is privy to the developers developing - they are the ones that can, instead of allowing 20 developments to go ahead, perhaps they only allow 10, or even six. They are the ones that could make the judgment call. Even though I run the association, the members don’t trust me – because they think it is their competitive edge - to get in first, and do the job. That is why town planners are very important.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: So a town planner doesn’t just say that this building can only be three floors high, and not four floors high - the town planner will actually say there isn’t enough road infrastructure, there isn’t a sewerage infrastructure, so therefore you cannot build this high density development. Is that the situation?

BRIAN KIRCHMANN: That is exactly right. The town planner plays a very crucial role in the development of any development.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Where to from here?

BRIAN KIRCHMANN: Where to from here? I don’t know - we are just saying talk to us. Perhaps there are town planners could be seconded - to assist for a short period - to get us out of this. I don’t see any other route. We are saying that we can help - the problem that concerns me right now is that all the town planners are so busy in the commercial field that I don’t actually know if these guys have got the capacity to help. They are saying hang on a second, we’ve been talking to these guys for years. Now you want me to go and do a job for them - when I am so busy, and now is my opportunity to make a little bit of money - and the opportunity is there for me right now? Your question "where to from here?" is an exceptionally good one. I actually don’t have the answer for it - that’s my problem!